In a recent USA Today interview, Los Angeles Angels center fielder Torii Hunter speculated about why Major League Baseball lacks a high percentage of African-American players. The reason there's no 21st century Jackie Robinson or Hank Aaron playing today is likely because MLB doesn't provide a sufficient number of college scholarships, offer the same bonuses in its amateur draft as the NFL and NBA do and scout in America's inner cities, Hunter and baseball insiders posit.
The conversation turned dicey, however, when Hunter criticized MLB for outsourcing to fill its rosters, especially in places such as the Dominican Republic and Venezuela."People see dark faces out there, and the perception is that they're African American," Hunter told USA Today. "They're not us. They're impostors. Even people I know come up and say, "Hey, what color is Vladimir Guerrero? Is he a black player?' I say, 'Come on, he's Dominican. He's not black.'"
Seriously, Hunter? I don't know how Guerrero racially identifies but to suggest that he's not black simply because he hails from Latin America is ridiculous. Do black people solely exist in the United States or in Africa? Hunter's statement is even more preposterous when you consider that the Dominican Republic shares the island of Hispanola with Haiti. No one questions whether or not Haitians are black, but time and time again, it seems that Americans have difficulty grasping that one can be both black and from Latin America. This becomes more perplexing considering that even the U.S. government designates Hispanics as a group that can be of any race--black, white, Native American, etc. Clearly, there are cultural differences between blacks from the United States and blacks from Latin American countries, but to suggest that the latter aren't actually black presents a myopic view of blackness. And given that many blacks in Latin America still practice customs directly tied to their pre-slave trade West African roots, while black Americans have lost a lot of these traditions, makes the suggestion that Afro-Latinos aren't authentically black doubly offensive.
Hunter further insulted Latin American blacks when he remarked, "You can get a Dominican [baseball player] for a bag of chips." Perhaps it's more cost-effective for the industry to outsource talent than to sign American players, but Hunter's comment comes off as culturally elitist, as it trivializes the worth of Latin American players.
While I find Hunter's comments offensive, I think it's fortunate that they became public at a time when there's a nationwide movement for blacks from Caribbean countries to identify their national origin on U.S. Census forms. Perhaps if immigrant blacks represent themselves in this way, perceptions of what is and isn't blackness will become more complex, and the type of comments Hunter made about black Latinos will be a thing of the past.
Comments
Of course you are right, Nadra, but I can understand Hunter’s point of view. And it is even more complicated. The inhabitants of the English, French and Dutch Caribbean islands, like Jamaica, Martinique and Curacao, don’t see themselves as latino’s, because they lack the native American influence (and don’t speak Spanish or Portuguese). The black people on Curacao, where I live, see black latino’s as rather different from us. The racial thing for us is apparently less important them the cultural differences. In my opinion the only thing that should matter are those cultural differences. Skin colour (there so many) is, or should be, only as important as the color of your eyes.
A later discussion by ESPN’s Howard Bryant gave much needed clarification to the comment. It was more about the financing arrangement for those outside of the U.S. and how much effort is and has been made to recruit Latino players versus how much effort is made to recruit African Americans from the U.S.
That explanation and clarification put a whole different spin on the comment. See NPR’s Weekend Saturday for Bryant’s comments and explanation
for AfrAms, like Hunter, Black is as much a set of (assumed) unique experiences – history, culture, social status, SES, etc. – as skin-tone or kinky hair. the fact that most kidnapped Africans landed in the Caribbean, Mexico, Central and South America is evidently lost to him – all descendants of Africans in the Americas share histories of color-bound oppression and exploitation.
“out-sourcing” exploits the needs of workers competing on the uneven field of a globalized labor market. owners do what owners always do: rigging the table to derive an advantage.
lastly, contrary to Hunter, AfroLatinos are NOT “impostors,” we are a bridge to an emerging sociocultural majority.
Well unless you’ve been to the Dominican Republic, you might not know this. But for the most part, Dominicans deplore African or Black anything. They even have a derogatory word word reserved for African-Americans and Haitians.
A Dominican shared with me that on his grandmother’s death-bed. That she made him promise that he’d marry only someone white. Because of all the stress she endured as a dark Dominican.
Aside, I remember moving to Orlando Florida in 1982. I saw that Latinos were listed as White on their driver’s license. Even if their color was a maximum black. Orlando where police reports identified Latino’s race as white.
In essence, the color black, does not always signify Black the race. There probably is something true about Hunter’s politics about baseball. History if you check it out, would confirm some of what he says is correct.
admitedly, colorism – w/ varying degrees of institutional support – exists among Latinos. and as i said in an earlier post, it’s rooted in the similar national histories of African bondage. but the particular national struggles against racial hierarchy – which today shape how race is EXPERIENCED – differed markedly.
i don’t know as much of Dominican history, but the DR does suffer from a nat’l obsession w/ whiteness – & neighboring Haiti. the dictator, Trujillo (d.1961), was a Black man who used face powder to lighten his complexion!
in Puerto Rico, notions that “Boricua” is an amalgam of Europe-Africa-Indigenous is most consistently championed by pro-independence activists (on the island) & Puerto Rican progressives here (notably, the Young Lords).
Afro-Cuban identity/culture is not merely acknowledged, but widely celebrated – in art, music, religion. in Cuban history, Blacks played prominent roles in its 19th c. wars of independence, and the overthrow of the Batista regime (1959). Cuba’s domestic & foreign policies – esp. twd Africa – are grounded in a demonstrably anti-racist frame (see: http://www.alternet.org/story/146068/how_cuban-trained_u.s._doctors_treated_thousands_of_haitians_after_the_quake).
Mr. Hunter’s doubts aside, self-identified “Latinos” will become the majority-minority in a generation, or so, profoundly iaffecting how race will be experienced by future generations of Americans. in fact, i would submit that the Teabaggers’ overheated fears of “losing their country” are mostly driven by the inevitability of Euro-ethnic Whites becoming a “minority” for the 1st time since the nation’s founding. Mr. Hunter might want to consider how Abolition, the civil rights movement, and the demand for immigrant rights are bound together by contention over who can “be an American” – and who gets to decide.
Hunter displays monumental ignorance. His ancestors as well as those of blacks in Latin America came from Africa. So because Latin American blacks don’t live in the U.S. their genetic structure has changed? If so, into what?
Hunter needs to read history before he opines anything in this regard. The man clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
The sad thing is that impressionable youth may take up his cause
While it is true that major league teams sign Latin American players for next to nothing, at some point they make the team and negotiate for more, much more money. The major leagues should offer wage parity when signing anyone to make things fair and non-exploitative.
Mr. Hunter, read some history.
As an African Latino I don’t find it offensive what Hunter said I find that he has an ignorence that is very popular in the Americas in general. I’m Dominican and whites in the country and some blacks would rather be called brown or Indian. In the US I’ve heard many African americans say I’m not black I’m brown. So it’s not just us who say things like that. I lived in the US for the last 15 years I’m 22 now. Many balcks excepte as black but I’m the one that speaks Spanish. To say I’m not balck is to insult my parents and very proud African Dominican grandparents who instilled in me to be proud to be black.
I’m surprised though that Afro Latinos who identify themselves as black mainly Robinson Cano haven’t spoke publicly about this. Usually in the MLB those black Latinos who won’t perm their hair are secure with their black identity. Miguel Cabrea, Cano, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, and Edgar Renteria are a few. Vladimir Guerrero and guys like pedro Martinez would rather be called Dominican or Indian. Well either I wish people would read a history book. I speak English does that make me English? I speak Samoan too I’m not Samoan. Spanish is just a language my culture is Afro dominian and my race is black dominian American and I’m damn proud of aiiight no hay pa’ nadie!!!
I love this post Nadra! Thank you for being so open minded. Americans in general, who haven’t spent much time outside of the country, don’t realize that there are many different experiences in the world besides the American experience, and there are many different racial experiences besides just the American (U.S.) experience with race.
Latinos Also have much difficulty grasping the concept that one can be both Black and from Latin America. A lot of Latinos know better, but they Pretend that people of African descent don’t exist in their countries. The rest of the world doesn’t know about Afro-Latinos because Latin America keeps them Afro-Latinos hidden away. Afro-Latinos are beautiful, oppressed people who deserve better than to be ignored, descriminated against and hidden. We MUST Educate Latin America AND the Rest of the world about Afro-Latinos! My family is from Nova Scotia and Quebec and We are Black people. We speak American English, Gaelic, Irish English and French. We too are part Native American (Mic Mac tribe), just like African Americans and Latinos. I know a woman who is a Black German as well a man who is Black Irish (from Dublin). People of African Descent live in EVERY country…..Especially Latin America who has Waaaay more Black people than the U.S. The U.S of America is only 13% Black. Brazil alone has the 2nd LARGEST population of Black People in the World but they are severly descriminated against by the Portuguese! Nigeria has the first largest population of Black people. Tori Hunter as well as a lot of people of other races need to educate themselves about this. He made a stupid comment based on ignorance, but he sounds Just Like most Dominicans who refuse to admit that they are Black. Such a shame.
Latinos Also have much difficulty grasping the concept that one can be both Black and from Latin America. A lot of Latinos know better, but they Pretend that people of African descent don’t exist in their countries. The rest of the world doesn’t know about Afro-Latinos because Latin America keeps them Afro-Latinos hidden away. Afro-Latinos are beautiful, oppressed people who deserve better than to be ignored, descriminated against and hidden. We MUST Educate Latin America AND the Rest of the world about Afro-Latinos! My family is from Nova Scotia and Quebec and We are Black people. We speak American English, Gaelic, Irish English and French. We too are part Native American (Mic Mac tribe), just like African Americans and Latinos. I know a woman who is a Black German as well a man who is Black Irish (from Dublin). People of African Descent live in EVERY country…..Especially Latin America who has Waaaay more Black people than the U.S. The U.S of America is only 13% Black. Brazil alone has the 2nd LARGEST population of Black People in the World but they are severly descriminated against by the Portuguese! Nigeria has the first largest population of Black people. Tori Hunter as well as a lot of people of other races need to educate themselves about this. He made a stupid comment based on ignorance, but he sounds Just Like most Dominicans who refuse to admit that they are Black. Such a shame.
Mr Hunter is right on point and those who find his comment offensive only need to visit some of the latin countries with significant black populations to know the truth.The Dominican Republic should be the starting point and only after then can anyone pour scorn on a painful but sadly realistic fact.
African American are the imposters….Afro latinos have more in common culturally to actual sub saharan african then african american culture!
and the same thing goes for whites from latin america and ameri-indians…The main issue is how race difference of how race is classifed in anglo country vs hispanic countries…In anglo countries they have the one drop rule meaning that anyone who has at least 1/8th black blood IS black where are in hispanic countries they have and inbetween catagory called mulatos. In lousiana the mulatto population had their own social class….So in latin american it not just black and white…its black white and all shades of gray. For example in DR someone looks like beyonce would not be considered black because she has light eyes, fine hair and caramel colored skin. She would be consider mulata or triguena…where as in the USA mulato is an insult (which i dont know why)and she would be seen only as black
ral just stop it.beyonce is black period so leave it at that who ever u are u doing it a gain serperating the original people u most be a devil like i said stop sayin where u where told u where from who are u where did u com from how long ago cause all those places got birth records 1) who where u before america 2)who where we before jamica 3)who where we before we before puerto rico 4)who were we before dominican republic ha 5)are every where in the world. u can take a lion out of the jungle in a house that dont make him a house cat his nature is still that of a lion.or the saying taking a blackman to spain dont make him spain or spanish cause he is there that dont make no sence do it or a cat rasied by a dog hes still a cat if he is black brown white and grey or what shede he is get me.peace
First, Nadra, congratulations on the article!
greatmind: when ral said that Beyoncé would be considered mulatto outside of US, that is true! In many countries, people will just look at your complexion and say you’re black, white or brown… There is no: what do you consider yourself? Where do your ancestors come from? All this kind of crap…
Race should be about phenotype and not about culture or ancestry. Halle Berry is a great example! She isn’t black (phenotype), it does not matter if she considers herself black (social group). She is mixed race (white and black), so she should be brown/mulatto…
Please, everyone, there is nothing bad or wrong about being mixed race… Actually, one who is mixed race was supposed to have a better understanding of race and be more tolerant overall… That is not always true if you grow up in a very racial oriented society (like US)…
I would also like to make a comment about what jsm said of Brazil (”Brazil alone has the 2nd LARGEST population of Black People in the World but they are severely discriminated against by the Portuguese!“)…
JSM, What the hell are you talking about? It is true that in Brazil, there are more people with black ancestry than in ANY other country in the world (Africa not counting). However, they are not severely discriminated against by the Portuguese…
First of all, Brazil must have one of the best race relations in the world! In Brazil, once foreigners/immigrants learn to speak the language people will treat them as their own… People in US don’t know but immigrants from all over the world move to Brazil in the previous centuries (mostly from Portugal, Italy, Spain, Germany, Russia, Syria, Lebanon and Japan). For instance, there are more Japanese descents in Brazil then in any other country in the world (more than 1.5 million)!
However, in Brazil people don’t call themselves by nationality for example. A son of an Italian immigrant will NEVER say I’m Italian or Italian-Brazilian… He/She will say: my parents are Italian. It might look just a language or nationality thing… but it is not! In US, people consider themselves Irish, Italian, Greek, etc, because the society is extremely segregated! There is racial and culture segregation in this country!
People in Brazil will rarely talk about race… I’m not saying there is no discrimination; of course there is discrimination, especially against black poor people… But it’s not like in US where there is racial segregation! Race is everywhere! When you see a man, you don’t see just a man, you see a Black man, a White man…. It’s unbelievable! People don’t realize this because it’s been like this forever. I’m not talking about Apartheid or the South before the Civil Rights movement; I’m talking about how we see ourselves as individuals.
So, JSM, saying that blacks are severely discriminated is not true. How were you severely discriminated when your society incorporated so many elements of your culture? Where in US will you find anyone practicing an African religion? Well, probably only in the state of Louisiana which was by the way colonized by a Latin European country: France.
This is actually a pretty interesting point… Amerindian and African influence is much more present in former Latin colonies than in US. Anyway, this is another discussion…
To conclude, I don’t wanna anyone having a wrong perception about me. I love US, I love living here… I don’t plan leave this country. In my opinion this is a wonderful country, but it has a major fault: race relations!
I honestly don’t get why this is such a marvel to some, and such a confusing issue to others. Race and ethnicity have never been mutually exclusive.
When African slaves were stolen during the TransAtlantic Slave Trade, they were brought to the Western hemisphere and taken to a VARIETY of countries that had been colonized by all types of Europeans. 95% of these slaves were taken to Latin America, the Caribbean, South America, and Central America. 5% were brought to North America. As a result they ended up speaking the languages of their oppressors, whether Spanish, French, Portuguese, Dutch, or English.
To this day, their descendants speak those languages.
ALL these people are Black, they just came from & developed different cultures based on environment. Anyone who rejects the blackness of someone who speaks Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, or any other language is ignorant, probably hasn’t traveled to any other part of this hemisphere, and should therefore learn the facts instead of judging others. Lol.
Simple.
Im latino & i lived in an area where blacks weren’t used to seeing a black latino speak spanish. So, me and another kid would always get harrassed with names by blacks kids. They didid’nt see us as blacks at all. We were stuck in between. So, by choice, i concidered myself different & its not that i did’nt know my roots, it’s just the way i was being treated. So, i feel hunter hasnt read any history from the americas just like the kids i grew up around.
thank you so much eople are f—ing retardded..if they would pick up a history book they would realize that spain france and england all had slaves..wich means blacks today can have SPANISH,FRENCH OR ENGLISH LAST NAMES…but for some reason they only think blacks can have last names such as smith davis and johnson…read a F—ING BOOK….so since the spanish braught blacks to venezuela and and england braught blacks to texas…the blacks in texxas are only black…no theyre not black in latin america theyre latino…..NO YOU F—ING IDIOTS LATINO IS NOT A RACE…I MYSELF I AM A WHITE LATINO..MY FAMILYS FROM CUBA BUT ANCESTORS ARE FROM SPAIN…LATINOS ANCESTORS EITHER COME FROM SPAIN(EUROPE)…AFRICA…OR AMERICA (NATIVE AMERICAN)
Very good article. Alot of Latinos Have trouble grasping the concept of Afro-Latinos as well. There are Latinos and entire Latin American countries that actually Deny the existence of Black People in their own countries. Some Afro Latinos would rather call their black people by other names rather than Black or just pretend that Afro Latinos are all just dark skinned indians who are just mixed with a tiny little amount west African blood. This is Not true at all. The truth is that Afro-Latinos are descendants of the Same Esnslaved West Africans that African Americans, Afro-Carribean and Afro-Canadian people are descended from. You CAN NOT Tell simply by looking at the descendents of the slave trade, exactly which country they come from. I have seen Afro Carribean, Afro Latino, African American and Afro Canadian people that have the exact same features, hair and bodies as well as the same mixture of African, Native American And European blood….. They were all still Predominantly of African descent as well. Afro- Latinos need to first acknowledge that they have very large populations of Black people who come from their own countries. Some Afro-Latinos need to Stop pretending that their is no discrimination against the black people of their own Countries……….When there most certainly is discrimination of Black People in Latin America Every Single Day! Let’s stop pretending that Discrimination Against Black People Only Exists in America. This is a World Wide Problem. Once Afro-Latinos do this…….then they can educate the rest of the world about who they truly are. The descendants of Enslaved Africans in all of the Americas are the Same People and they Need To ReConnect With Each Other Instead Of Pretending That We Don’t Share The Same History And DNA. This Is Exactly What Europeans Wanted When They Enslaved Us………To Forget Who We Are. It has worked so far. Very Sad. We need a change today!
-N.Shrf
People need to also remember that ALL descendants of enslaved Africans are mixed!
You will NEVER find an African American or Afro-Latino or Afro-Carribean person who is 100% pure African. That does not mean that they are Not black.
You DO NOT have to be 100% Pure African To Be Black.
Halle Berry’s father is Black. . Beyonce straightens and bleaches her hair and wears false hair to make herself look more European. This changes her appearance a little……but she is still distinctly Black and both of her parents are African Americans.
There are African Americans that are much lighter and mixed looking than Halle Berry and Beyonce as well….but they are still black people.
@Jack:
What Are You Talking About?
There is In Fact Alot of Discrimination Against Afro-Latinos in Brazil. Maybe it doesn’t matter to you because you are not suffering through it
Copy And Paste These Links Below About Racism In Brazil:
Article About Racism in Brazil:
http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part3/index.html
More Information About Racism In Brazil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Brazil
Youtube Video: About Racism in Brazil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AASusCA0XVA
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT RACIAL CO-EXISTENCE DOES NOT MEAN RACIAL EQUALITY
CELEBRATION OF AFRICAN CULTURE DOES NOT MEAN THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT DISCRIMINATED AGAINST
@Jack:
You are in Denial about discrimination against black people in Latin America. I hope that you can really take the time to educate yourself about this. There is even a civil rights movement against racial discrimination and oppression of the Afro-Latino People. Where have you been?
Either you are uneducated about this, insensitive to the suffering of others or you are in Denial about this because it’s too painful for you to admit.
Just because some Latin American Countries Appreciate and Incorporate West African Food And Music within it’s own culture Does Not Mean that Afro-Latinos have been treated fairly or even with respect after slavery was over in their country.
The same thing happened in America, where African-Americans were allowed to Cook, Clean, Educate and literally Raise The Children of White Americans as well as Sing, Dance and Entertain for European Americans for Centuries……BUT this did Not Stop European Americans From Discriminating, Murdering, Raping and Oppressing them.
African Americans also created some of the most important inventions that are used by everyone today who lives in America (including you) such as Garrett Morgan who invented the First Traffic Light and Dr. Daniel Hale William who performed The First Open Heart Surgery…….and many, many more great inventions we all use today that were created by African American Inventors.
The Same Europeans (French, Portuguese, Dutch, Spaniards, English, British, Scottish, Irish) who Enslaved And Oppressed Black People In The First Place Are The Very Same White People Who Actually ADMIRE BLACK PEOPLE MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
Of course West African Culture is part of Latin American Culture…..but again, this does not mean that Afro-Latinos are treated as equals in Latin America.
(Continued) @Jack
Admiration Does Not automatically equal respect and fair treatment. Sometimes it equals Jealousy and Envy more than anything else.
People who go out of their way to Bully and Oppress others are the very same ones that ADMIRE the people they bully the most.
Europeans are known for admiring and alot of times actually Stealing the Culture of Black people and trying to take credit for it themselves.
If you would take the time to look….you would see that African Culture is part of the Uninted State’s culture As well. Places like the Gullah Islands of South Carolina have actually preserved the true West African Language and Culture of AFricans who were taken to the Uninted States many centuries ago.
There are even large populations of Black Americans who practice their original African Music, Foods and Religions Every Single Day….but they are overlooked by people who Refuse to see them.
Black People have been and Still Are Discriminated Against In Every Single Country in The World. This is A Fact whether People Want To Accept it Or Not.
I agree with Jasmine……….Discrimination against Black people is a World Wide Problem (In every single country).
Bottom Line……Denial of Racism Doesn’t make it go away.
This does Not mean That Afro-Latinos Should Not Be Proud Of Our Countries……..We Just Deserve The Respect And Fair Treatment from Our Countries As Well.
@Jack:
You’ve got to be kidding…………
Please Copy And Paste These Linksabout Racial Descrimination In Brazil:
http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part3/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AASusCA0XVA
Please Remember That Racial Co-Existance is NOT The Same As Racial Equality……..
Stop Being Selfish And Educate Yourself!!!